(if you dont read anything else on this page at least go down the bottom and read from the line that has the five asterisks ***** in front of it and down)
I have always been a guy who sees problems and tries to solve them by going to point B first (goal) and backtracking it to point A (start) to figure out the fastest, best way to get there….Its how I have always done things and how I have developed theories (training, supplements, drugs, diet)..on how best to go about certain situations. People have been using steroids for (predominantly and widespread) 6 decades pretty much, THERE IS NOTHING DRAMATICALLY NEW on the hormonal front. Its the same old rigomoro for the last 60 years. If we are going to take a step forward, people need to start thinking outside the box and get out of the HORMONAL route of thinking. There are other avenues to build muscle mass and get rid of bodyfat. (Such as the cryolipolysis slurry topic I previously vaguely talked about on IG (but in which I went into great detail about on a message board the other day). Get outside the hormonal box, start thinking about protein synthesis and other factors that build muscle mass. Im trying to further the sport in a way that doesn’t jeopardize peoples health. For example: Var is great, looks great in the mirror doesnt it? Ever see your Trigs/HDL about 6-8 weeks in on a good dose of var? Not so freaking great is it? That is plaque accumulation in the arteries the longer you ride those awful numbers and alot of people ride those numbers year round. That to me is a major problem that people in modern day bodybuilding just “deal with” and then have a heart attack in their 40’s, 50’s. So again Im trying to get people to think outside the box on muscle mass accumalation.
Two things of note:
1) You are not going to find human studies on the majority of compounds that are novel and new that come into any genre. They virtually all start out with rats and mice…and that goes for everything inside and outside the bodybuilding arena.
2) Finding compounds that create 21 inch arms are about last on the priority list in science.
So lets talk about a different route than what we all have been concentrating on for years.
Turkesterone and 20HE (20-hydroxyecdysone) are two of the most anabolic components that make up Ecdysteroids. They dont work hormonally. They work through other routes, one of which is a much greater enhancement of protein synthesis. You need to remember that part because it is of extreme importance.
This has been well established in many studies (even studies using Anabolic Steroids in comparison)
In some studies the anabolic activity has gotten so pronounced that even though no dire side effects have been shown, it has been suggested they are an unfair advantage to muscle mass accumulation/hypertrophy and should maybe be banned drug testing wise by WADA
So here we are
Here is the project I have been working on below. And you MF’s better thank ole Dante Trudel if i can get it to work. Because if it does work….it is going to change every single one of you bodybuilding wise.
20HE…20-hydroxyecdysone. Its out there already in oral form. Here is the problem. For one it has tremendous problems being absorbed correctly thru the GI and secondly it has an insanely short half life orally. Just in mice and rats alone its half life was WAIT FOR IT!!! 8 minutes! In human being there is data all over the place about its half life….regardless its too short! Even if this was readily absorbed thru an oral route, you would have to take it virtually all day long at short intervals to get it to work correctly. So the oral route is not going to work at all in my opinion.
But first Ill go into some more literature before i get to my final point
20HE increases protein synthesis greatly and although its speculative on its exact mechanisms on muscle mass its slowly starting to be figured out https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3815456/
“20E is claimed to have tonic properties (Abubakirov et al., 1988). Indeed it stimulates muscle growth, provided that protein supply is adequate. Such anabolic effects result in increased physical performance without training (Chermnykh et al., 1988). This was for instance demonstrated using the forced swimming test with rats: animals given ecdysteroids for one week were able to swim for significantly longer times (Azizov and Seifulla, 1998). These effects are similar to those of anabolic steroids. 20E is also able to increase muscle ATP content in vitamin D-deprived rats (Kholodova et al., 1997).”
“20-Hydroxyecdysone (20E) is an ecdysteroid hormone that has anabolic effects in vertebrates, i.e. increasing muscle size without androgen influence. 20E affects the size (cross-sectional area, CSA) of the different fiber types in a muscle-specific manner. Besides the fiber size, 20E also increased the myonuclear number in the fibers of normal and regenerating muscles, via activation of satellite cells and inhibition of myostatin. 20E may provide an alternative for anabolic-androgenic steroids.”
“20-hydroxyecdysone has androgen-like anabolic action but numerous studies have confirmed that it does not have hormonal effects.”
“This means it works almost as well as androgens and hormonal manipulation to enhance anabolism without the side effects of hormonal manipulation.”
“The anabolic effect of ecdysteroids is connected with the acceleration of translocation processes instead of the induction of new RNA synthesis; meaning ecdysteroids are not likely to act as the classical steroids, via cytoplasmic receptor and regulation of gene transcriptional activity.”
The following I think you should take with a grain of salt until its proven greatly in numbers as again the route of administration of 20HE in the current marketplace is not being done like the studies below.
“The anabolic effects of 20-hydroxyecdysone and turkesterone are nearly equal to that of Nerobol®. Chermnykh et al. compared the anabolic action of ecdysteroids and of methandrostenolone (trade names Averbol, Dianabol, Danabol) on male mice, preconditioned with or without a swimming test. Methandrostenolone produced anabolic effects only after constant training, but 20-hydroxyecdysone improved the physical ability of the mice both with and without this preconditioning training. Methandrostenolone stimulated the biosynthesis of myofibrillar proteins in the musculus soleus, but not in the musculus extensor digitorum longus, while 20-hydroxyecdysone increased the amount of myofibrillar proteins in both muscles.
“Ecdysteroids affect the metabolic processes of protein synthesis and energy consumption in cells and are responsible for recovery from muscular tiredness during intensive training. They are able to reduce fat tissue by stimulating thermogenesis via uncoupling proteins.”
“Phytoecdysteroids appear to be a deserved substitute for popular, but forbidden preparations such as the anabolic-androgenic products: Nerobol®, Durobolan® or Proviron®, used in speed and power sports.”
“Phytoecdysteroids produce a range of effects in mammals, including increasing growth and physical performance. In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis elicited by a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis.”
“Ecdysterones enhance utilization of amino acid and protein supplementation and enhance protein synthesis. Ecdysterones enhance protein synthesis without having androgenic actions. Ecdysterones enhance utilization and incorporation of leucine into muscle. Ecdysterones increase nitrogen retention. Even though they are anabolic; they do not have androgenic or estrogenic activity. Nor do they have neither anti-androgenic nor anti-estrogenic activity.”
***********IF YOU DONT READ ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS PAGE AT LEAST READ BELOW THIS LINE
So here we are let me try to wrap this all up for you.
Read the following links especially if i lost you to this point.
As previously said the half life is incredibly short and oral absorption is lacking so its virtually unusable in an oral product BUT what does it do when used subcutaneously or maybe even a topical carrier thru the skin?
Astonishingly it increases the protein synthesis of the muscle it is injected around (or rubbed into many times daily). Again it is bewildering but it has been shown (not so much to be systemic) but to be muscle specific in studies. It has also been shown to work subcutaneously which is also surprising. What does that mean? It means if it works in practicality, you could for example inject thru the skin (subcutaneous) of the triceps with an insulin needle (or rub it on with a transdermal cream) many times a day after meals and it would increase the muscle mass greatly in the triceps (or the biceps or the chest or the quads or whatever)….
so thats what im working on….to see if what holds in the studies and in theory might hold true in reality. Will it work? Will it become the new synthol that actually builds muscle mass? On paper it works. I have to see if it will work in reality.
Muscle specific….they used it on the triceps and the triceps grew meanwhile the further away they got from the administration to the triceps, muscle mass did not hypertrophy. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22495969/
Again muscle specific. they administered it to the calves and they grew…and muscle stopped growing away from the site specific area https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0944711308000901
This time they used Poststerone which is a component of the parent compound 20HE 20-hydroxyecdysone. Again it increase muscle size at where it was administered. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30923008/
Male Wistar rats receiving 20E (5 mg/kg body weight) by subcutaneous injection into the left thigh for 8 days showed a significant increase in body mass, and the soleus and extensor digitorum longus muscles were significantly enlarged on both sides with increases in the number of muscle fiber nuclei, implying activation of the satellite cells (Tóth et al. 2008). In conjunction with the effect on adipocytes described above, 20E enhances lean body mass.
*****So here is a compound shown to increase muscle mass on the bodypart it is applied to in not one but three separate studies. It works mainly by greatly increasing the protein synthesis happening at that bodypart. As alot of you know I am partners in thelabsupplements.com thats what we do there. We make cutting edge compounds there. I am in the process of making a potent cream transdermal with 20HE 20-hydroxyecdysone in it that you will apply multiple times a day to any bodypart you want to grow at a signifigantly greater rate. For example you will be rubbing a cream on your triceps or biceps or whatever bodypart probably 4-6 times a day after protein meals and before bed, letting it dry and going on your way. Will it work? I dont know. I will find out. On paper it works. I am going to take my network of friends and myself and I am going to give them all samples of this and we are going to find out the ins/outs/tweaks I have to do and etc. And its either going to be an exciting novel new approach to bodybuilding or its not….but I am going to continue trying to do my part in furthering this endeavor onward.
And this is the reason why Protein synthesis is so important over just thinking about things “hormonally”
My close friends in this sport you know who you are….Ill try to get your samples done and over to you as soon as I can.
23 thoughts on “AND AWAY WE GO…..”
This sounds incredible Dante… I’ll congratulate you now as I’m certain it will be a success as is everything you have done! I’m 14 weeks out from a world event … would be incredible if it’s available in time! Haha (jokes) sending you positive vibes for this project!! 💪🏼
Dante, is there any way of becoming part of a trial for this? I’m a firm believer that if it can’t hurt, then there is always a potential for benefit, if it does nothing, then it’s nothing lost…
Very interesting. Could it be used on multiple body parts at the same ie. biceps and triceps or would that reduce the overall effect?
I think the answer to that question is if someone did not take in adequate protein at multiple meals thru out the day that is a very feasible problem that you bring up.
It can but no doubt at all that someone would be doing themselves a disservice if adequate protein was not taken in with their diet.
Always good to see someone thinking outside the box and if it works opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of site specific muscle growth
Dante, this sound Awesome and really promising. Im thinking in the rehab aplications and it blows my mind. One question, ¿would it work in people with muscle atrophy?.
On paper no doubt, but lets see what this does in reality.
Will definitely be following your development of this novel compound! It would be nice to have something other than a hormonal route for building muscle mass/decreasing body fat.
Very interesting stuff. Would love to find out about being a part of the trial if there is a larger one done.
Wow.. this would be a game changer… I’m shocked. If this works… it’ll be huge. I’ll volunteer if you need more guinea pigs
Hi there. Love your content.
This sonds interesting. But havent this been tested before? Think I saw it mentioned in a forum BACK in 2004. By a guy with the nick Mixelflick. Don know if it was only theory or tested. If it works I will buy a bathtub and a barrel of cream.
Ive seen two others who tried it with once a day administration and they did it with the parent compound. The compound 20HE is the one that has been shown to be highly anabolic and site specific. (Turkesterone and to a lesser extent Cyasterone have shown to be anabolic systemically). On paper this compound needs to be used multiple times a day after meals and with a higher dosage of 20HE and not so much the parent compound.
Very interesting stuff here Dante.
“In skeletal muscle cells, phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis elicited by a rapid elevation in intracellular calcium, followed by sustained Akt activation and increased protein synthesis.”
Did the researchers investigate and/or comment on whether or not there was any risk of increased calcium accumulation outside the cell, such as intravascularly? Just curious about the potential for vascular medicine complications as a result of calcium accumulation. Even though this would be a transdermal application to a particular muscle, I just wonder if there’s potential to impact the vasculature of that region it was applied.
They did not lead into that and basically stayed into calcium elevation in skeletal muscle cells
Thanks, Dante! Just curious, will you be dosing the transdermal preparation with the 5 mg per kg of body weight in mind?
That I am working out in my head right now as to the correct human dosage needed. I need to go way over dosage because with a transdermal only 10-20% actually makes it thru
Let me know if you need guinea pigs
Dante. This is truly amazing.
The basic idea is sound, but the Ecdysteroid you’re using isn’t. Let me be the first to say it: 20-H looks great in the literature but is an absolute bust in the real world. You’ll need a gram a day of it transdermal to see anything, and certainly nothing site specific. It will improve your rate of recovery and several other parameters, but nothing earth shattering.
It would be most interesting to see how this works on those of us over 50 yrs old who may not have the muscle repair processes we had when younger. Do you think, based upon your research, that age would play into the effectiveness equation?
Thank you for a very thought-provoking piece of research!
How long will you have to leave the cream on for the 20HE to absorb? From my experience 20HE smells terrible. I can’t imagine having to wear it for hours waiting for it to soak in.
I’d love to be involved in this trial. Seems very interesting to say the least.